“I became suspicious of my own traits after extended contact with another sociopath, with whom I clicked instantly.”
—Clinically diagnosed sociopath
The above remark in an online forum caught my eye, because it validated a suspicion I’ve nursed that sociopathic people identify with and gravitate toward one another. It’s predictable, really, that people with common perspectives should be mutually attracted, as well as drawn to particular fields, for a couple of examples, institutional research and law. Italics that appear in the quoted paragraphs below, which are by the same male speaker, are added. This speaker, whose comments will be illuminating to students of anomalous brains, is not the author of the book whose cover is used as illustration.
“Generally our impulsive and charismatic personalities mean we become friends easily. For example, both of my flatmates are sociopathic, although probably to a lesser degree than myself. I’m able to freely talk with them about manipulative behavior, and we occasionally teach each other tricks based on our own areas of social expertise. Working as a group, we can very easily mask one another and cooperate to more effectively manipulate others. We also mutually operate on the same rationally motivated, prosocial basis, and as a result we find it very easy to trust one another as our motivations are all identical, and we’re aware of that.
“An awful lot of my sociopathic friends are aware, because I had the conversation with them and ‘woke them up.’ I tend to deliberately gather other socios around me and then make them self-aware, which has created a very interesting little social circle around me. We talk about it quite regularly, because it often comes up when we’re venting to each other or discussing our emotional responses.
“Academia is full of narcissists and sociopaths. So is the legal profession. Virtually any ‘prestigious’ career that offers a lot of potential cash will contain socios, but at the same time there will be some of us almost anywhere as many socios choose the easiest lifestyle possible, which isn’t compatible with those sorts of high-level careers. All fringe subcultures have a higher than average representation of socios, and the drug subculture is absolutely infested with them.”
Reading this person’s analysis of the differences between sociopaths and narcissists, which is very self-aware and forthcoming, was equally interesting, and those who’ve been traumatized by personalities of these types, may also find it significant.
“It’s the difference between ‘I am better than those around me’ and ‘I am fundamentally different [from] those around me, because I have a bizarre and somewhat broken brain.’ Narcissists believe they excel because they’re amazing at everything; sociopaths accept that we’re cheating.
“I very rapidly psychoanalyze others and then use their self-image and insecurities against them. For example, say I spot a woman who’s very insecure and in need of male validation. I can compliment her in exactly the way she wants and needs, and as a result foster emotional dependence, which can give me what I want. Or if you’re badly educated and insecure about your intelligence, I’ll show interest in you as an intelligent and well educated man, and tell you how smart I think you are and how much potential you secretly have, and as a result you’ll end [up] feeling ‘special’ and get the feelings of excellence you crave. Which can give me what I want. Etc., etc. It would take a very long time to explain every possible outcome, but generally it relies on telling people what they want to hear. This is my style, though, and some other socios can be VERY different. Female sociopaths tend to use self-victimization and foster ‘white knight’ behavior in men above all else, for example.
“I can be very passionate about some things, and that’s genuine. I care about my closer friends (because they’re mine) and the women I’m sleeping with (because they’re mine). I avoid negatively affecting those people at all and can actually be very, very protective of them—which in practice ends up being a mutually beneficial relationship.”
This person also validated my conviction that narcissists possess a far greater potential to damage others.
“I f*cking hate narcissists. They’re even worse than us, and they manage to delude themselves into believing that they’re the nicest people on earth. I hate the effect they have on other people, because it’s completely, needlessly damaging, and my own ethics are utilitarian, so the sort of wastefully cruel behavior they participate in just strikes me as stupid and childish.”
He corroborates the most basic defining attributes of the sociopath—and the character traits and tendencies he limns are ones familiar to me as a daily reader of people’s ordeals with sociopathic partners or former partners.
“I don’t feel any guilt. I have no idea what guilt even feels like. I have very few emotions at all. Most of my social interactions with non-socios are pure acting. I also have the full-on stereotypical predatory stare unless I remind myself to ‘act’ as if I’m making normal eye contact, which is a dead giveaway. I feel like most people are just zombies rather than real human beings at all.
“I don’t have a conscience. I use the word hate all the time, but I’m not sure I know what it truly means, to be honest.
“Most of my emotions are what is described as ‘shallow’—that is, they are short-lived, theatrical, and don’t affect my thought processes to the same degree as a normal person. Anger is heightened, and I have a capacity for truly blind rage. I have fallen in what I perceived as ‘love’ with another sociopath in the past, but whether that was mutual obsession or what a neurotypical person would describe as ‘love’ is a mystery to me, although I did care about her deeply.
“We’re almost invariably very smart and possessed of higher than average verbal and social intelligence. Acting is just…easy, for us, for some reason. It’s something we all seem to learn naturally. It is absolutely just acting, and if you can watch a professional actor bring tears on command then you understand how we do it.
“I think all sociopaths get off on power. We tend to view ourselves as distinct from other people (in a way that very easily slips into narcissism) and as ‘natural leaders’ (which we sort of are, in all fairness), and we enjoy being in those positions. I enjoy success, and I enjoy demonstrating that I’m more able than others. Sexually, I tend towards being extremely dominant and aggressive; however, I’d rather find submissives who enjoy that experience than shoot myself in the foot by needlessly harming other people. I think this need to demonstrate dominance over others is inherent, but you can deal with it in different ways; I’d rather be heavily involved in BDSM and a careerist assh*le than satisfy my need for dominance by needlessly murdering other human beings, but I do suspect that that need is why the most maladjusted and broken sociopathic individuals sometimes deliberately harm others for kicks, or even kill.
“Fringe sexual preferences [are] virtually ubiquitous. They don’t bother me at all, because they’re really fun—and drug use allows me to experience some of the emotional extremes that I would otherwise be denied.”
He also contradicts the psychopath stereotype.
“Animals love me for some reason. Cats especially will always pick me to sit on if there [are] multiple people in the room. Dogs respond to my eye contact and mannerisms by being very submissive.
“I like cats and dogs, and I enjoy having them around, so I don’t see any reason to hurt them. The idea of hurting an animal does not make me feel guilty at all, but I do see it as unpleasant.”
His derision of narcissists betrays resentment that sociopaths should be popularly or psychologically associated with these undisciplined and self-delusory slaves to their compulsions. Below is his response to the inquiry, “In your [opinion], do narcissists a) know fully that they’re lying when they’re gaslighting you? b) truly believe the twisted version of reality they present you with, or c) talk themselves into believing their own lies gradually because it suits them? This question is something that causes me a lot of pain and confusion when being gaslighted. Some part of me still wants to believe they are good people without malice….”
”This depends on exactly how self-deluding any given narcissist is, and from an external perspective it’s very hard to tell. I avoid gaslighting [see footnote]…but if I [were] to do it, I’d be fully aware that I was lying. On the other hand, narcissists are extremely unlikely to ever admit it to themselves, because their entire self-perception is completely distorted. It’s likely to be a combination of B + C in practice; A would be behavior more characteristic of a true sociopath. Keep in mind that narcissism is a sliding scale of self-delusion in practice; the worst examples will be B, but the majority are likely to be C. A narcissist is just a sociopath who believes [his or her] own bullshit, really. I wouldn’t say they’re ‘good people’ but they’re not fully conscious of what they’re doing.
“Assume everything they say is bullshit until you see at least some evidence. You don’t have to tell them this, but be absolutely cynical.
“Any extreme displays of emotion are not real.
“Do NOT do anything to give them any more power over you than they have—lending or borrowing money, making minor concessions, etc. They will use it against you.
“Narcissists have incredibly unstable self-esteem. Keep this in mind, and you may be able to motivate them into doing what you want to some degree.
“I think sociopaths are born, and narcissists are made from some of those sociopaths. I don’t think every person has the potential to be a true narcissist based on nurture. People who are naturally ‘sociopathic’ aren’t evil, because we can be incredibly socially symbiotic if we’re aware of the value of prosocial behavior.”
It’s fascinating to me to contrast my impression of this highly intelligent man, who’s a self-acknowledged sociopath with a reasoned code of ethics, with what I know of the narcissist, who’s a parasitic sponge and chronic and impulsive liar. The narcissist is infantile; designing, perfidious, and fraudulent to the core; and wantonly vengeful and destructive. This man, who’s clearly very singular in his self-awareness, lucidness, and honesty may be a sociopath, but after observing how willfully “neurotypical” people lie and treacherously betray others, I’d much sooner trust his motives and integrity than theirs.
Copyright © 2014 RestrainingOrderAbuse.com
Wikipedia: “Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception, and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.”
TALKING BACK to restraining orders 
That declared sociopath is a covert narcissist, note the reserved superiority. Even before I reason Castaneda’s definition of Petty Tyrants I was already using sociopaths (overt narcissist, covert narcissist, histrionics, etc.) for healing a sociopathic injury from a stepmother who almost turned me into a sociopath. I love abusing them because I do not have to cross any boundaries to perform this as they do it for me. Also, tempering myself in this way has given me the capacity to love unconditionally so I am able to make deeper ginuin connections with others. Comas sion from unconditional love is a poison to the sociopath because it can not be easily manipulated. To me the definition of sociopaths is one who has isolated their ego from thier heart and live only in their ego. They are all blond to any reprogramming done to them while enabling thier behavior. All cultures who acknowledge and deal with this issue endure like Chinese, Hindu and Jewish cultures while cultures that ignore this destroy themselves from within like Egypt, Rome and soon the US. I think people like me are nature’s way of dealing with sociopaths. They cannot be cured but they can be tamed through enabling reprogramming.
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I thought you would appreciate this…I have shared a little bit of my journey with you…. My legal battle ended about 6 months ago, (which lasted 1.5 years, I tried to sue civilly for defamation, false light, motion 11, and to seal and expunge the record. He never got a CPO granted against me but he lied to the police and tried to get me arrested. Long story short, the only thing I “won” was to seal and expunge,– defamation and the ability to perjury oneself is apparently ok and protected as qualified and or absolute privilege according to Ohio.
Last week, out of the blue, I hear from him, told me he made a mistake, and would I consider taking him back, we could make it work, etc. Currently he is married to someone else, the woman he basically by filing a restraining order against me. I personally think on some weird level the law suit against him kept us connected in some weird way, now that it is over….he misses the “attention”. Truly bizarre, sociopathic or narcissistic or addictive personality you pick, but they love the drama, love the attention, all about them.
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Congratulations, at least, for getting the counter reset. Great, isn’t it, that some garter snake can consume a year and a half of your life by dribbling poison in a judge’s ear for 10 minutes?
Truly, though, good for you.
I was pulled over by a cop on Saturday for driving too slowly in an area that’s been under constant “construction” for two years or more. He was thrilled to cite me a law about “impeding the flow of traffic.” Judges are very much the same. They try to fit rules to claims. I think the judge you had must have been thinking of the rules of defense that allow someone or his or her representative to say defamatory things about a plaintiff. The rules don’t authorize false allegations. There wouldn’t be false reporting and perjury statutes if lies intended to mislead the police and court and pervert the course of justice were protected!
Just pity the new wife, I suppose. I think you’re right. It sounds like you earned this narcissistic creep’s respect. Maybe he thinks your gumption makes you worthy of him. Or maybe it was a new setup move. Or both. I’d warn you not to bite lest you get bitten again, but I don’t think there’s any risk of that.
You did it!
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OMG I thought I was the only women of such evil. My story the same as this women’s story. She’s right this site has help me so much, to protect and educated myself and not feel so alone. I’m so grateful for the work u do. Thank god I found a attorney that is a bulldog and that I have assets that I sign leins on to hire him. I can’t imagine not having enough assets to fight for what is morally right. At this point I’m a year an a half into fighting this RO, still haven’t seen a judge, fired frist attorney that tried to sell me down the road with nothing. My new attorney starting the divorce. I have signed 75,000 in leins, I’m up 30,000 right now. My husband is so so evil. Karma is a bitch. He is the perfect example of narcissis gone wild.
Rhonda
P.S. Can u give me your opinion on penal code 270a within restraint order california law. If I read right your husband cannot through u in the street without food shelter clothes medical. Or is it ok if u have a RO filed on u. Thanks
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I guess you’d want to talk to your attorney, Rhonda, about whether the stipend you’re receiving and the mobile home you’ve been “allowed” to use qualify as sufficient under these statutes for “food, clothing, and shelter” (relative to monies your husband has available for his personal use). If none of you has medical coverage, it’s possible the “medical attendance” provision isn’t being met. You might ask, for instance, what you’re supposed to do if someone breaks an arm. I’m not sure what costs are like in California. What may be a plump subsistence wage in rural Alabama ($600/week) might be far from it in California.
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I’m a woman and my narcissistic husband just wasn’t content with the emotional abuse he inflicted. My decision to leave him resulted in me being issued a restraining order for harassment. I realize I should probably be relieved he didn’t say issue one for violence, because he could have gone either way. Both are lies. Anyhow, your page has been a beacon of light while I find myself in a very dark place. I just wanted out so I have no money to defend myself. The solution? Educate the hell out of myself and try and do this alone. Your site has helped me very much. I wish you didn’t have such vitriol for women, wives or abuse protection resources, they are not all bad and genuine abuse should have restraining orders as a tool for protection, but I understand where your anger and dislike come from.
I found this page to be ridiculously helpful in preparing my response. I think your readers will too. Yes, it’s written for Massachusetts but I’m in California and using it along with my county website I found it to be very similar and astonishingly helpful. You may want to create a link to it.
http://www.massoutrage.com/ma/restraining-order-resources/fighting-false-restraining-orders/
Thanks again! You’re doing good work.
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Thanks for the recommendation. The MassOutrage page is linked in a post or two and in the right margin. See also “Restraining Order Abuse and Vexatious Litigation,” which is written by a woman for men but has some defensive recommendations that may be of value to you if your husband’s acutely vindictive. It’s so hard defying lies when you can’t afford representation, and I wish you the best of luck beating the odds.
If you come across other sources of information that are valuable to you, do though please pass them along.
What you perceive as vitriol isn’t toward women, per se. What you may grasp if the snarl you’re in now isn’t one you’re able to escape (and I sincerely hope it is) is that what we call “restraining orders” were made up a few decades ago. The idea that motivated their enactment is sympathetic, but the reality is that they’re easily abused (as you know). Some estimate that as many as half of protection orders, for example, are used to dominate, maim, and destroy—including the lives of women. Often, of course, children are permanently scarred, too (scarred, for example, in ways that promote academic failure, general distrust and resentment, teen substance abuse and alienation later on, and futures with low ceilings).
The reason nothing changes is that groups that represent themselves as championing women’s causes refuse to acknowledge abuse of restraining orders and the consequences of that abuse. They’re the political force that rejects reform; men aren’t. It doesn’t sound like your husband has alleged anything that deeply gnaws at you, but such false allegations are made all the time. Wantonly nasty or heinous frauds. And appreciate that whatever your husband has said is public record and subject to review by anyone, including someone you may seek employment from down the road.
Some women I’ve corresponded with have had false accusers claim they’re volatile and violent. Some have had false accusers graphically (and publicly) discuss phony sex kinks they allege these women have. One woman had her son taken from her by a man who claimed he was the boy’s father (the court had the boy removed from school and handed over to a guy who was just a bitter ex-boyfriend with a grudge: “Here you go”). Some women are seduced by married men, betrayed (obviously), and then framed as stalkers by their abusers to cover their trails. Some women, as a result of false allegations that stick, are permanently denied employment in fields they earned degrees to practice in. Some are denied employment in fields they’ve worked in for decades. Some of these women are moms. Some are grandmothers—and some of these grandmothers are put out of their homes on the street.
When I criticize “feminists,” I don’t mean to criticize womanhood (or even real feminists, the kind who believe in equity between the sexes, not special privileges for girls). I worked around and studied with academic feminists for many years. Some of them, in the humanities if not the sciences, are very emotionally healthy, wonderful, and brilliant; some are well adjusted but with a neurotic distrust of men that requires a lot of pussyfooting to pacify; and some are serious cranks. Guess which ones are going to be your dominant mainstream feminist advocates. These aren’t even people most women would identify with. Yet many women assume that since they’re working “for women,” they’re good.
If you’re still smarting from—or worse, reeling from—what’s being done to you today five or 10 years from now, you may perceive that the “good” we imagine these people are doing is anything but.
Again, I hope you’re able to walk away from this business without crutches. Many aren’t.
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Maybe I should. I never want to say never again. So take the last name off. Thanks RJ
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Done. Rhonda, see this woman’s comment (click hyperlink). I mentioned to her the correspondence between your situations and suggested you might have some advice for her about obtaining representation.
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The more I read on narcissism. I finally don’t feel as crazy as I thought I was when I was married. 24 years my husband mentally, physically, verbally abused me. It was insane. Today after throwing me out of our home 18 months ago with a RO. He is still trying to destroy me and his kids. I can’t even put it all into words. There is one word PURE EVIL.
Rhonda
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If you’re concerned, Rhonda, about any fallout from your signing your name to your comments, let me know. I can remove your last name from them easily enough.
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Really not worried about it.
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